R SR Hirsch was focused on High Culture, not Popular Culture. I am not sure the Modern Orthodox strategy is a necessary means for obtaining the former. Information access has been democratized to the point that one needn't be all that exposed to or participate in Popular Culture in order to have access to the fine arts, higher academic knowledge, or any other aspect of refined High Culture.
Then there is the problem that the keepers of High Culture are increasingly tainted by values that are rapidly diverging from ours. It is now considered "refined" in those circles to be welcoming of gender confusion, or of patently false, destructive and self-destructive narratives (such as the Palestinians, but also examples that lie further from home) under the rubric that all narratives are allegedly equal. Modern Orthodoxy may simply not fit the Post-Modern West that well.
But then, neither does much of what R Hirsch wrote. Along the same lines as wondering what R SR Hirsch would have said post-Shoah. We don't know.
That said, our contemporary Chareidi strategies do not distinguish between the two and eschew both.
We have to forge new strategies for how we can learn Torah and keep its mitzvos and values in the world Hashem put us in. We may not have a R Hirsch to guide us, but then... Hashem "Thought" it was our souls, not His, that should be here-and-now facing these issues. We are the ones designed to face these issues in as productive a way as possible.
I agree that the Modern Orthodox strategy may not be necessary to obtain access to high culture nowadays -- but before thinking about obtaining, one must first decide if it is valuable and worthwhile to pursue, and I think Rav Hirsch's answer to that nowadays is resounding as ever. (Of course, Eichah Rabbah's chochmah ba'goyim taamin, torah b'goyim al taamim came first).
I agree that there is very little worthwhile pursuing in popular culture, and that the values of high culture have become corrupted as well - but we're not the only group pushing back against that, and we have a lot to contribute to righting the ship.
I would want to hear more about what you mean by 'needing new strategies to learn Torah and keep its mitzvot and values.' I think before trying to reinvent ourselves, we would be better served trying to implement programs like Rav Hirsch's in our homes and schools while rooting out the distractions of popular culture, as you described.
RSRH's values, yes. But I am not sure about his programming. But as you wrote, perhaps already back during the rise of Nazism R Hirsch would have pivoted tactics.
Also, there is Israel. There are people building in terms of a culture among cultures, thinking about how to make a Torah observant community that is a full tile in the mosaic of world cultures. Which is a different problem than finding out how I, an individual, should be living within a foreign culture. And what is going on here in Israel is certainly more vibrant and creative than the Orthodox communities of the US. If roughly just as frought with problems. But I don't have many thoughts yet in regard to where I think they ought to be headed in contrast to where they actually are, my Aliyah was only 6 months 6 days ago.
To me, his program seems just as applicable as ever. Where do you see it no longer fitting the current reality?
For Rav Hirsch, Israel playing a global role was always the ideal - of course not as one nation among many, but to demonstrate what a national life could look like when lived with Hashem at the center. That surely includes elements of value-laden culture (although properly weighted - not overshadowing the more important elements of life). He addresses the b'dieved nature of living as individuals in host cultures in letter 9 and the opportunities such a reality presents, but the ideal was meant to be living in the land and broadcasting to the world how to live a value-centered life.
R SR Hirsch was focused on High Culture, not Popular Culture. I am not sure the Modern Orthodox strategy is a necessary means for obtaining the former. Information access has been democratized to the point that one needn't be all that exposed to or participate in Popular Culture in order to have access to the fine arts, higher academic knowledge, or any other aspect of refined High Culture.
Then there is the problem that the keepers of High Culture are increasingly tainted by values that are rapidly diverging from ours. It is now considered "refined" in those circles to be welcoming of gender confusion, or of patently false, destructive and self-destructive narratives (such as the Palestinians, but also examples that lie further from home) under the rubric that all narratives are allegedly equal. Modern Orthodoxy may simply not fit the Post-Modern West that well.
But then, neither does much of what R Hirsch wrote. Along the same lines as wondering what R SR Hirsch would have said post-Shoah. We don't know.
That said, our contemporary Chareidi strategies do not distinguish between the two and eschew both.
We have to forge new strategies for how we can learn Torah and keep its mitzvos and values in the world Hashem put us in. We may not have a R Hirsch to guide us, but then... Hashem "Thought" it was our souls, not His, that should be here-and-now facing these issues. We are the ones designed to face these issues in as productive a way as possible.
I agree that the Modern Orthodox strategy may not be necessary to obtain access to high culture nowadays -- but before thinking about obtaining, one must first decide if it is valuable and worthwhile to pursue, and I think Rav Hirsch's answer to that nowadays is resounding as ever. (Of course, Eichah Rabbah's chochmah ba'goyim taamin, torah b'goyim al taamim came first).
I agree that there is very little worthwhile pursuing in popular culture, and that the values of high culture have become corrupted as well - but we're not the only group pushing back against that, and we have a lot to contribute to righting the ship.
I would want to hear more about what you mean by 'needing new strategies to learn Torah and keep its mitzvot and values.' I think before trying to reinvent ourselves, we would be better served trying to implement programs like Rav Hirsch's in our homes and schools while rooting out the distractions of popular culture, as you described.
RSRH's values, yes. But I am not sure about his programming. But as you wrote, perhaps already back during the rise of Nazism R Hirsch would have pivoted tactics.
Also, there is Israel. There are people building in terms of a culture among cultures, thinking about how to make a Torah observant community that is a full tile in the mosaic of world cultures. Which is a different problem than finding out how I, an individual, should be living within a foreign culture. And what is going on here in Israel is certainly more vibrant and creative than the Orthodox communities of the US. If roughly just as frought with problems. But I don't have many thoughts yet in regard to where I think they ought to be headed in contrast to where they actually are, my Aliyah was only 6 months 6 days ago.
To me, his program seems just as applicable as ever. Where do you see it no longer fitting the current reality?
For Rav Hirsch, Israel playing a global role was always the ideal - of course not as one nation among many, but to demonstrate what a national life could look like when lived with Hashem at the center. That surely includes elements of value-laden culture (although properly weighted - not overshadowing the more important elements of life). He addresses the b'dieved nature of living as individuals in host cultures in letter 9 and the opportunities such a reality presents, but the ideal was meant to be living in the land and broadcasting to the world how to live a value-centered life.